• Blame the pseudo left for high house prices

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 • Re: Blame the pseudo left for high house prices

Posted by owenss at 2008-04-23 08:06 PM

Energy rating?, Energy rating? Let me get your argument straight. Housing costs have sky rocketed because of things like energy ratings. Tell me oh wise one how much does energy rating add to the cost of a house?

 

The QMBA/Cordell Housing Cost Index says that the three major components of the house price are Materials 39%, Labour 26%, followed by Professional fees and Government charges at 20% The government charges include the 10% Goods and Services tax.

 

 

 • Re: Blame the pseudo left for high house prices

Posted by dalek at 2008-04-23 08:59 PM

"Dalek, the dumb regulations I was referring to were in the house construction not the infrastructure, for example, energy ratings." You also said " As well as the artificial scarcity of land we have excessive infrastructure charges and greeny building codes. Consequently a house in the outskirts which should cost $200,000 costs $350,000."

Lets take these one by one:

House construction:

I actaually agree that house construction costs are far higher than they should be if factory mass production was implemented on a large scale.

This is a separate issue from things like "energy ratings" and "greeny building codes".

Some of the modern day building costs are attributable to code safety improvements for example the requirement that a safety barrrier be placed around the periphery of  house roof before the roof is installed. I guess the number of workers who were made quadraplegic before this has been reduced. But of course in the economic rationalist view this is not important.

Energy efficiency is no trivial matter for the residents of a home. Are you saying that homes should be built with no energy saving techniques or insulation at all? There is a useful submission on Melbourne here note that it cites a dissenting view by Monica Oliphant that insulation is of less benefit - vis a vis Adelaide. I suspect that this has more to do with the difference in climate than any-thing else.

"Greeny" building codes

The building codes are opposed by most people that you would label as "greeny" for example the mandating of tile roofs by some councils is an insane energy consuming and dangerous practice. You should try to find the CSIRO video of a tile roof house as a bush fire approaches, the tiles are sucked off the roof and the fire dives in and burns the house to the ground in a few minutes. Brick veneer is all wrong from an energy standpoint but it is also mandated by the same councils that prohibit factory built homes with building codes.. These can be built for a fraction of the cost of site built brick and tile veneers or faux tuscan villas.

These codes are not driven by "greeny" considerations they are driven by rate revenue and class perceptions.

I think i have already laid the excessive infrastructure charges stuff to rest.

Dalek 

 

 

 

 • Re: Blame the pseudo left for high house prices

Posted by owenss at 2008-04-26 06:05 PM

David Mc When I bring up Fort Wayne on Google Earth what I first notice is how small it is. About 1/4 the size of Adelaide.

 

The second thing that I notice is how close open land is to the city centre.

 

When I bring up Adelaide what I notice is how far the new developments say Seaford Rise are from the CBD.

 

If cheap land is your only criteria then as I said before there's plenty of that at Peterborough. Too far away to commute though.

 

There are untouched green spaces within Adelaide maybe we should ask Bill and Patrick (who also reside in Adelaide) if they think housing tracts on the park lands would be popular or cheap.

 • Re: Blame the pseudo left for high house prices

Posted by DavidMc at 2008-04-26 07:08 PM
I think the key demands on government by genuine progressives should be:

  • End urban strangulation so that far more new land can be made available on the outskirts.
  • Quicken the pace of higher density development in existing residential areas.
  • Remove some of the infrastructure  burden from new housing developments.
  • Remove regulations that force homeowners to pay for things they don't want or cannot afford
  • Remove impediments to the use of more advanced methods in housing production including prefabrication.

The sites referred to earlier (here, here, here, here) go a long way to putting the case. This needs to be complemented by up to date information on how housing construction is being discouraged in one's own urban area or jurisdiction. Answering the arguments of urban consolidators is also important as is identifying who is to blame.

Then we need to think about how house and land tenure, and housing provision might look under social ownership.

 • Re: Blame the pseudo left for high house prices

Posted by dalek at 2008-04-27 08:09 PM

David, your dot points are sensible but i do have a few quibbles.

  • I see "urban strangulation" as an imperative to build new cities. It's geometric thing. A large number of smaller diameter cities have a much better perimiter to area ratio than single mega cities such as Melbourne or Sydney just basic geometry really. The optimum size of a city is between 100,000 and 300,000 on these grounds. No amount of dicking with regulations will alter the basic maths.
  • Given the multi cities policy, the population density is of a second order importance and can be basesd upon, demographic, aesthetic and living preferences not Malthusian brutalism. 
  • When you talk about "Infrastructure burdens" you should specify which burdens you mean. Sewerage? Water? Power? Roads? Footpaths? (I once visted anew city in the uS called lincolnville (what else?) there were no footpaths, no-one walked any-where. I suppose you would call that progress

Motre to come I have to go

 • Re: Blame the pseudo left for high house prices

Posted by dalek at 2008-04-27 08:39 PM

David,

See Previous posting:

The final two dot point:

  • Removing regulations that force home-owners to pay for things they don't want or cannot afford.

Good examples would be black tile roofs, swimming pools, doric columns and brick veneer construction?

  • Remove impediments to the use of more advanced methods in housing production including prefabrication.

I would go further and provide incentives for these constructionmethods given that apublic good could be demonstrated.

There are collective building groups where a group of people get together and build each others homes. The land is held in common and leased to the participants on a very long term basis. You would call them "hippie greenie scum" no doubt.

Dalek 

 • Re: Blame the pseudo left for high house prices

Posted by DavidMc at 2008-05-01 04:55 PM
Dalek wrote:

I see "urban strangulation" as an imperative to build new cities. It's geometric thing. A large number of smaller diameter cities have a much better perimiter to area ratio than single mega cities such as Melbourne or Sydney just basic geometry really. The optimum size of a city is between 100,000 and 300,000 on these grounds. No amount of dicking with regulations will alter the basic maths.

My impression is that in the USA and elsewhere urban sprawl has evolved into regions. Suburbs are no longer simply the outskirts of a city centre. They become regions in their own right with their own employment, shops and other facilities.


Spiked has a report on a forum they organized on urban strangulation in Britain:

Seeing Red over the Green Belt

Green Belt protectors cried ‘not an inch!’, while their opponents insisted that ‘people must come first’. Sparks flew at last night’s spiked debate.


 • Re: Blame the pseudo left for high house prices

Posted by owenss at 2008-06-16 07:03 PM

DavidMc

 

 Ive been wondering for a while what the announcement by the Victorian Government of one of the largest land releases in Melbourne's history did to your argument that Melbourne was in the grip of the anti land release forces. As the announcement was made on the very day that your posted this thread I at least thought that it would warrant comment from you.