• Crisis in Aboriginal communities
• Re: Crisis in Aboriginal communities
Posted by
dalek
at
2007-07-02 07:20 PM
YM. Well I have actually having lived and worked in aboriginal communities from the top of South Australia right through into the NT. I spent years assisting communities with power systems, so I can claim some first hand knowledge. (My role was to liase and plan with community leaders). The first comment I will make is that the state of the communities varied widely, many communities were models of good governance - there was no drunkeness, or petrol sniffing etc. A small minority were hellholes, some so bad that the Authority who had responsiblity for my safetyand the safety of my crew would not allow us in. From my direct experience I would argue that the situation in most of the communities is not as bad as Howard and Pearson and Brough would have you believe. Even in the few years that were covered by my activities (which I fondly believe asisted in bringing "modernity" to many people) I observed active and effective programs that were instituted by the people themselves that attacked the core issues in the communities. Pearson, Howard and Brough are just opportunists who for their own reasons are making a meal of what is undoubtedly a very bad situation in a minority of communities. Howard because he faces an election, Pearson because he and his brother have established a Pearson Industry (to use LS terminology). You guys have been totally sucked in, you are once again supporting a military solution. This time to a problem that is already being solved by the people themselves. Dalek
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• Re: Crisis in Aboriginal communities
Posted by
arthur
at
2007-07-03 12:23 AM
dalek's fond belief that he was helping bring modernity is best illustrated by his opposition to providing children with computers to protect them from sexual predators.
Pearson is spot on: Strangely - but if you adopted an old leftist analysis it should not be surprising - the greatest impediment to the policies that are needed to relieve suffering is the confusion of those parts of the middle class who think themselves progressive. And it is particularly that section of the progressive middle class who are involved in the so-called helping industries who most contribute to the misery of those whom they believe they are helpingThe "progressive" sneering of people like dalek has actually helped influence Aboriginal policy in Australia. That is a crime. For a less caricature and more convincing illustration of "progressive" malevolence towards Aboriginals checkout this long thread at Lavadeus Prodeo - Welfare reform, Pearson style. Tactically it is probably best to refer to this poison as "confusion" but the malevolent bile with which they defend misery and degradation is unmistakable. |
• Re: Crisis in Aboriginal communities
Posted by
youngmarxist
at
2007-07-03 12:27 AM
Dalek, that does not answer my question as to what alternative policies you advocate.
Which programs, and who should we be supporting if you think Pearson is not the right person? What has Pearson said that is incorrect, and what is the actual situation? Do you have any concrete suggestions or solutions to bring to this discussion? Or do you merely enjoy being full of hate? |
• Re: Crisis in Aboriginal communities
Posted by
nkelly
at
2007-07-03 04:19 AM
Regarding that poor unfortunate Dalek;
Arthur writes,
The sheer extremism of his poisonous hatred of progress is becoming unconvincing. Is it really possible that people like dalek actually exist?
Young Marxist writes,
Do you have any concrete suggestions or solutions to bring to this discussion? Or do you merely enjoy being full of hate?
It appears that Dalek is in the argument a despicable and hate fueled waste of time.
Why does Dalek bother?
You are so much better as a group when you just swap ideas amongst each other.
Poisonous hatred, full of hate.
As usual you are too kind to Dalek.
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• Re: Crisis in Aboriginal communities
Posted by
owenss
at
2007-07-03 06:10 AM
I think that there's some wrong headedness in our arguments.
Quite often when someone makes an observation or critisism they are countered with an argument that if they don't have a better solution then this detracts from their observation or critisism.
It's ok to critique someones position without having a thoughtout position to replace it.
For example someone sells me a car, I return the car saying theres something wrong. The mechanic accepts my critisism of the car without demanding that I produce a better idea about how to fix it. Of course it would be good if I could give the mechanic a better idea of how to fix the car.
Theres plenty that troubles me about the governments new approach to indigenous peoples in Australia. I havent got a better plan mostly because I think that the answers lie within the indigenous communities rather than with the government. (also I see the indigenous population as being very complex, a one size fits all aproach may suit those on Groote Island but not those at Hermansburg. Extra police may be the answer for some but I know that others feel overpoliced already. 
What I do think is positive is that the Prime Ministers actions have raised this issue to the number one political issue and many people who do have an intimate knowledge of this state of affairs are getting to speak to a greatly enlarged audience. |
• Re: Crisis in Aboriginal communities
Posted by
youngmarxist
at
2007-07-03 07:41 AM
owenss, dalek has not been making 'observations' or 'criticisms'. He has been dishonestly attacking us, claiming that 'we' support things and people that 'we' do not. And doing it in a angry tone that makes him look ridiculous.
Not only does dalek not have an alternative plan, he can't even point us to someone he thinks we should be listening to. Critiquing someone's position without at least having a broad alternative in mind - or at least being able to point to different points of view that should be considered - is absolutely sterile and useless. Politics is about what policies you want to see in action, or it's just whingeing. |
• Re: Crisis in Aboriginal communities
Posted by
dalek
at
2007-07-03 11:51 PM
Let's agree on a few things:
The plan by Pearson et al is to take away the rights they have fought for and to increase the responsibilities. It is a one size fits all temporary fix until election time. Only the most ignorant would believe that over 200 years of neglect and persecution can be fixed by the army and yet another layer of white regimentation in even ten years? One thing I observed is that where there was really strong and militant aboriginal leadership the communities seemed to be well run and largely devoid of drunkeness and petrol sniffing. The best (pace feminists) were run by what the locals called "strong men" make what you will of that. In my view the "problem" lies with the collaborationists like Pearson instead of fighting for rights he advocates doing things the white mans way. The Gurindji took Wattie creek by force of arms now they will lose it because of Uncle Tom Pearson. Dalek
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• Re: Crisis in Aboriginal communities
Posted by
arthur
at
2007-07-04 12:18 AM
dalek, Lets agree about just one thing, there is no way you can recover from having opposed providing computers to Aboriginal children on the basis that it would be exposing them to sexual predation.
Your "militant" sounding denunciations are entirely typical of absolute phoneys, as are your denunciations of people actually fighting as Uncle Toms. The extravagence rhetoric is so typical of people trying to hide the utter bankruptcy of their line. PS nkelly, I'm not sure if I understand your posting. Certainly hate sessions against dalek are less productive than discussions among ourselves. But he is such a perfect negative example of pseudo-leftism that kicking him off would be wasting an opportunity. Please take a look at the link I provided to Welfare Reform, pearson style. The same desire to preserve the current mess is beter concealed there while dalek's frothing brings it out into the open. |
• Re: Crisis in Aboriginal communities
Posted by
owenss
at
2007-07-04 03:07 AM
Dalek, Uncle Tom refers to Josiah Henson a great African American who deserves better than to be remembered as Uncle Tom. I think there are much better terms to describe a race traitor.
You use this term to describe Noel Pearson. Its hard to tell you what a poor description I think this is only to say that I have asked militant aboriginal people what they think of Noel and Uncle Tom was not a term they used.
I know that political aboriginal people struggle for unity against adverse conditions, for whities to deride their leaders would be a very poor look. |
• Re: Crisis in Aboriginal communities
Posted by
youngmarxist
at
2007-07-04 07:33 AM
owenss, I'd be interested to hear more on the different lines you see advanced by Aboriginal people active in politics.
While it's not directly relatd to this issue, I did a report of a 'Justice for Mulrunji' rally last November. About half way down you'll see the name Adrian Walker - he advocated that black people 'police the police' by watching what they do. He says that this set-up once existed in Brisbane. There are sound recordings you can listen to of what he said. http://letstakeover.blogspot.com/2006/11/justice-for-mulrunji-rally-queens-park.html Presumably any plan put forward on the grounds that it is more democratic than Mr Howards's proposal will neeed to be backed by people thinking at that level. |
• Re: Crisis in Aboriginal communities
Posted by
dalek
at
2007-07-04 05:18 PM
Owenss I used the term Uncle Tom, in the sense " It is commonly used to describe black people whose political views or allegiances are considered by their critics as detrimental to blacks as a group."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Tom
I see the Federal govt activities in the NT as basically a revocation of land rights, to allow unrestricted minining developement and unrestricted dumping of the worlds nuclear waste and to avoid sharing the benefits (?) with the Local Communities.
BTW I once flew in a light plane from Cairns to Wiepa, I was sitting next to the pilot and I saw a dirty yellow column of thick dust that rose 10,00 feet above the bush. The pilot said "oh that's from the uranium mine". "Is it radioactive" I said? "I won't fly through the fucking stuff" he said.
But as Lang Hancock once said apropos of Asbestos - "some-one has to pay the price of progress". (or something like that). Won't be the handmaidens of "unsustainable development" that's for sure... They are safe in the dome. Dalek
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• Re: Crisis in Aboriginal communities
Posted by
byork
at
2007-07-05 05:32 PM
I keep receiving global emails from various groups that are mobilizing against the emergency plan, so you can bet it will be an issue. Apart from anything else, I find it bizarre that they have jumped in so quickly and so definitely before the task force has handed down its recommendations for implementing the plan. I understand this will happen when the task force reports in a week or two. But for dalek and co, there's no need to consider the details of how the plan will be implemented, they already know it will be wrong-headed. Indeed, the 'revocation of land rights' that dalek knows will happen is matched only by his certainty that mining development will be unrestricted as will the dumping of the world's nuclear waste in these communities. dalek increasingly reminds me of those old blokes I used to meet while a young fella doing 'mass work' in pubs around Melbourne in the late 1960s/early 1970s. Total formulistic thinking, no evidence needed. Just a nod and wink and, of course, we all know what is really happening.
dalek's use of 'Uncle Tom' in reference to Noel Pearson is just disgraceful. I know of no reputable tried-and-tested Aboriginal leaders, including those who are critical of the emergency plan and of Pearson, who use that epithet against him.
I am still of the opinion that, regardless of the likely short-falls of the plan's eventual implementation, Aboriginal people will, in the main, see it as an opportunity to be seized. This is because they are the ones in the remote communities who know that action is more than urgently needed.
Barry |
• Re: Crisis in Aboriginal communities
Posted by
kerrb
at
2007-07-16 05:16 AM
http://abc.net.au/4corners/
The Cape Experiment: The inside story of the radical welfare reforms on the Cape York Peninsula This was on abc tv tonite and will be repeated tomorrow at 11:35 am also the full program will be online tomorrow It puts a compelling case for the urgent need to end passive welfare dependency for indigenous australians
_________________________
Bill Kerr |
• Re: Crisis in Aboriginal communities
Posted by
dalek
at
2007-07-16 05:52 PM
kerrb. Another view on the "crisis" in aboriginal communities, this time not from the "biased" ABC. Dalek. Below is the text of an article by Jennifer Martiniello which will be forwarded to major newspapers in |
• Re: Crisis in Aboriginal communities
Posted by
kerrb
at
2007-07-30 05:45 AM
Noel Pearson points out that progressive sounding "leftist" rhetoric originating from the tolerant middle classes is a cultural obstacle that aboriginal people have to overcome. Nice folks who want to do the right thing but who haven't thought deeply about the issues or are afraid to take a tough stand. In contrast, Pearson is a tough minded Leftist who can see through the wishy washy rhetoric and is prepared to unite with anyone who is prepared to take real take action in order to improve the situation of his people: The middle-class producers of culture and ideology often see themselves as the Left. My texts have often been perceived as attacks on the Left. But I support key policies of the Left. In many areas, Aborigines can agree with the Left, including the people who have felt most hit by my criticism. I agree with them on land rights and conservation, trade unions, redistribution and the role of government in guaranteeing equitable health care and education.
_________________________
Bill Kerr |
• Re: Crisis in Aboriginal communities
Posted by
Cyberman
at
2007-07-30 07:25 PM
What Noel Pearson writes is equally applicable to many ethnic minorities around the world. They are the classic symptoms of the social malaise of a dispossessed ethnic minority. I certainly don't agree with Comrade Dalek and I do sympathise with what Noel Pearson is saying. Except maybe the bit about the "Queen's English" ! The English don't need Kings and Queens to define the language! There is an issue of race that needs to be resolved in discussions with the Left. Whatever policies that need to be adopted can't easily be defined on racial grounds. But, that is not a reason for abandoning Left politics. If he wants to get into bed with the Liberals and Conservatives, fine, but he'll find that he'll get all of the pain for none of the gain.
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• Re: Crisis in Aboriginal communities
Posted by
arthur
at
2007-07-30 08:02 PM
Yes, Pearson is definately a tough minded leftist. This paragraph is also worth highlighting:
The main means by which class stratification is maintained and social progress impeded is not by direct and conscious oppressive behaviour by privileged classes. Rather, the forces of class operate culturally. They are embedded in the prevailing ideologies and intellectual currents, popular and niche cultures. Their effect is to cause confusion in the minds of lower-class people about social progress and how it may be achieved, and cause them to behave in ways that are contrary to their interests.What he calls progressive and leftist should be called reactionary and pseudo-leftist. This difference is important, but apart from that he seems to be spot on. He seems to have figured out a way to actually act as a leftist whereas we still haven't. At least we ought to be able to help clarify that ideologies which encourage people to despair of achieving social progress are ideologies that serve the interests of oppressors. But it needs to be as concrete as Pearson's work. |
• Re: Crisis in Aboriginal communities
Posted by
arthur
at
2007-07-30 08:41 PM
Explicitly referencing the "Queen's English" highlighted a key issue (very obviously not the issue of republicanism).
Pearson's usage reminds me of what bell rang that prompted me to reference Stalin on Linguistics in earlier discussion of multi-culturalism. That pre-emptive rebuttal of post-modernism defends the Tsar's Russian against attempts to keep the oppressed inarticulate. |
• Re: Crisis in Aboriginal communities
Posted by
Cyberman
at
2007-07-31 12:38 AM
Comrade Arthur, You write approvingly of Noel Pearson. He hasn't got it completely wrong. At least he knows and acknowledges that he's moving to the right with his statement that " I believe liberal and conservative policies have more to contribute to indigenous uplift" ! But, you've got to ask just what exactly does he want. I'd be very surprised if the devil doesn't turn out to be in the detail. Even the modern right aren't going to go along with any idea of overt racial discrimination in the application of welfare laws. It would cause just too much damage to Australia's overseas reputation. And, if he's looking for allies in his struggle for recognition of aboriginal land rights he's not going to find them on the right either. |
• Re: Crisis in Aboriginal communities
Posted by
dalek
at
2007-07-31 09:09 PM
Now let's hear Pearson and his acolytes defend this: 1. Brough exercises his work choices, fires 8,000 workers Darwin insider Henri Ivrey reports: Indigenous affairs Mal Brough is forcing Aboriginal people out of work in order to make them reliant on welfare. How could this be? A week ago Brough announced the next chapter of the “intervention”: the abolition of the Community Development Program (CDEP) in the Northern Territory from September. Without any reference to Barbara Bennett of the Workplace Authority, he has determined to throw 8,000 people out of the workforce and onto work for the dole. Already Aboriginal people at Amoonguna, Impanpa and Mutitjulu in central Australia have been signed off CDEP and on to work for the dole. Workforce? Yes and no. CDEP was established in 1977 on the community of Bamyili with the big promise to build communities through 20 hour a week employment, paid at a shade over dole payments. There were also “add ons” of capital and recurrent costs. Bamyili was later re-named Barunga -- the site of another broken promise with Hawke’s 1988 pledge for a treaty with Indigenous Australians. CDEP’s real achievement for government was that it effectively hid unemployment figures as it spread to its current level of 8,000 participants in the Territory -- and 34,000 nation wide. In Opposition, Territory Labor’s Clare Martin used to make much of this statistical distortion of unemployment figures, but has said sweet fanny adams about it since assuming power.
And it has also bitten Brough in the bum.
When he and Howard announced the national emergency, they proclaimed that they would quarantine the welfare payments of irresponsible parents to force them into spending on food, rent and education rather than grog, p-rn and gambling. Then Brough got the bad news: he couldn’t do that to the incomes of CDEP participants because it was illegal. CDEP wages are just that: wages not welfare. The solution according to Brough was a novel one -- and one not attempted anywhere else in the western world -- compulsorily remove people from work and put them on welfare. Of course, he claims that this novel approach will allow people to move onto getting real jobs -- though he concedes only 2,000 will be able to do so. So now you get it. Sack 8,000 people; throw them on the dole; and re-employ 2,000. Bring in the Workplace advocate? Can’t see that happening. In the meantime, there is deep angst in many towns and communities out bush -- especially those that have successful enterprises based on CDEP workers having “topped up” wages. It’s hardly a princely sum, but it is common for workers in this situation to earn $20-25,000 a year. Such workers also have wage deductions for rent and electricity -- not to mention repayment of loans for household goods and motor cars. On work for the dole -- which they are being forced into -- incomes will be slashed, and any earnings on top of welfare incur deductions after extra earnings of $20 a week. Widespread loan defaulting can be expected. Enterprises on communities such as stores and mechanical shops might be in jeopardy as money on communities becomes scarce -- and they in turn will be forced to cut labour or close shop. The retrenched workers will then be forced on to welfare. Shades of the Vietnam era philosophy of bombing villages to save them... |